Jean-Claude Van Damme's PREDATOR Casting Catastophy

In Episode 45 of Secret Level, we jump into the jungle of chaos involving Jean-Claude Van Damme originally being cast as the Predator in the 1987 sci-fi action classic Predator. We dive into all the different sides of the story that led to Van Damme being fired from the movie. It seems everyone involved has their own account of how things went down, and it's fascinating! You may think you know the full story, but we broke it all down, and we had a lot of fun talking about this! 

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Transcript

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And we're climbing up onto this mountain area. Because we couldn't, we couldn't get on the ranch. We just, we couldn't do it. Okay. There's a lot of security, things are blocked off. Uh, you just, it's really hard. But it's okay, you don't need to be on the ranch to see crazy stuff anyway. Of course. So we're on this ridge. Uh huh. Looking over this valley. And we're sitting there, just kind of shooting the shit, talking, and I'd say maybe like, we're there two, about, a little over two hours, and then all of a sudden, like, in the distance, we see this orb, like, way out there, just kind of like, floating, and we're just like, okay, is this it? Are we really seeing something right now? Is this what we're seeing? Of course. And it starts. floating towards us. And then we see this blue orb pop up behind it. Okay. A bit smaller. Uh, but it's like. Moving and they're kind of like moving around each other and it's like really creepy It's like freaky to see this stuff in like real life. Like when you're there, it's dark you're just hearing the noises of strange bugs and things roll, you know rustling through the bushes and stuff like that And yeah, it is pretty wild though. So we see it, they get closer. The, the orb looked like it was probably as big as a Volkswagen before it just kind of left, like it just kind of like, uh, dissolved. Okay, so it didn't disappear. It just kind of like dematerialized. Yeah, the closer it got it just kind of like faded away, and then the blue one never really, it was small But it never really got any bigger So I think it just kind of stayed in the back and just kind of like zigzagged back and forth It was really weird. You've always heard about these like seeing orbs, but you've never really seen Until you, unless you actually see it, you really don't know You know? So it's really wild, but it gets to the point, nothing else happens until, like, we decide to leave. So we're leaving Skimwalker Ranch, we're driving down this dirt road, okay? And this dog comes darting out in front of the car as we're driving out. And we're just like, what? It freaked us out. And Okay. What's weird though is when we look back because we passed the dog, but when we looked back, it looked like there was a giant freaking spider behind the car as we drove away. Like we think this spider ate this dog. Like it was, I don't know how to explain the visual of this. It was just so crazy. It was the craziest thing. You're just looking at this like shadow of a giant ass spider. And we don't know if it ate the dog or not, but it's like it could have if it wanted to, or the dog changed into a spider. I mean, we're at skin Walker ranch. Anything is possible, right? Anything. Yeah. But we're not, like I said, we're not on the ranch. We're like. Off the ranch. Because being on the ranch is illegal. Really, that whole area anyway is, is like paranormal, paranormal central. And so, uh, you don't need to be on the ranch to see some crazy stuff go down. Nice. But yeah, it was wild. It was such a crazy experience. So crazy. That really does Hit the point of what is the best pizza in Utah. So I'm really proud of you, dude. Yeah. Good job. There is this place in Duchenne that has great pizza. So, but yeah, so it was pretty wild, but we took photos. There was, um, there was a site where there's these like, uh, you know, you hear these things about Indian burial grounds in the area and stuff. Yes, and we found one of these places and my brother snapped these photos just like at this place We didn't go on it We were just driving by but he started snapping these photos and in all the photos you see nothing, nothing, nothing And then, all of a sudden, one of the photos has like, all these balls in it. These orbs. Okay. Just, pop, pop, pop, pop, like, all filled the photo. Okay. And then, after that, there's nothing. It just looks like regular photos with nothing. So they're, within these like, six or seven photos that were taken, one of them It's just like, flooded with these orbs. That's crazy. And if you zoom in, it looks like there's like these faces in them. It's re It's so crazy. Well, I don't like that at all. And then my brother's laptop with all that stuff on it was, uh, stolen. There's a reason. I don't know, man. There's a reason. But after that, like, my brother, he, uh, he went through like, some crazy crap in life. Like, some, like He, he believes he was cursed. Speaking of curses, when you're at a museum and they tell you not to turn your head and look at the decapitated Scotsman that's in, like, the, the little You have to bring that up every time. You're never gonna let me forget this. Cause how does the Wi Fi in all of A freaking Las Vegas hotel go out all of a sudden, like the whole gosh darn thing. Alright, so yeah, so we went to the Haunted Museum, Zach Bagan's Haunted Museum in Vegas while we were at CinemaCon one year, when we had some free time, and this one section they're like, By the way, we've got this decapitated head of a 13th century Scotsman. Uh, you can pass by it, but don't look at it because you'll be cursed. Is what they told us. That's what they told us. And me being like, the guy. I had the look. And I had to be the guy standing behind him going, Stop. He's like, what are you, what are you doing? Why are you looking at this head? Right. Cause I've never seen anything like it before. I had to. I don't know. It's absolutely true. I mean, you can see it out of the corner of your eye, but Joe was the brave one to turn his head completely towards it and go, Hey, what's up? And then keep going. Hey, what's up? So, yeah. Things happened after that, but we don't need to talk about that right now. That's me. That's me, everybody, in a nutshell. Bravest man in the world is what he is. And I appreciate it. Yes. I should be the spokesman for water. Absolutely. Like, all the world's water. All the world's water. I don't know why, Billy said the bravest man in the world, and so I decided to be the spokesman for water for some reason. Right. I mean, being the spokesman for water can't be easy. I mean, because what if nobody believes you that it's drinkable and swimmable at the same time? You know, as the spokesman for water. Yes. Yes. Yep. You know it's coming. You know it's eventually coming now. Yep. Yep, I do. Man, we're just gathering sponsors like no tomorrow. No tomorrow. I can't believe water is going to be one of them. The best sponsors in the world. Guys, you have no idea how much money we've made off of man made meat. Man made meat. Dude, I'm telling you, like, people don't believe me that we are sponsored by them. They're like, there's no way you guys could be sponsored by man made meat. But we are we I mean it doesn't even the company doesn't even exist, but hey, they sponsor us so well They pay us all the money. Yeah. Well all the man made meat just bought two new shacks Yeah, two new shacks in in the in Death Valley Making all the money man. If we make enough we could buy Zizek's Road, dude Dude, we should turn Zizek's Road into our studio Yes. Like, the end of Zizek's Road? Because at the end of Zizek's Road is this Old, like, health resort spa that was kind of like a cult back in the 60s. It really was, yeah. It was pretty wild, kind of the stuff that went on there. Maybe we'll get that, get to that another time. Yeah, maybe we should record there. Oh, dang. Dude, yes. Talk about it while we're there. Walk around. We could be like one of those podcasts where we carry a recorder around with, like a, like a digital recorder and you can hear the footsteps when we talk. Yeah. Um, actually, we're going to be extremely close to there in two months. What's happening in two months? We're going to CinemaCon. Oh yeah, CinemaCon's happening again. That's right. Yeah, and then when we're there, we'll just go out to Zizzix and do some stuff. After we go back to Zach Bagans Museum to look at the decapitated head of the Scotsman. If we go back, I will look at it with you. That's how that's going. And if the internet goes out again, we know. We know. There's no doubt. For the next couple of months, everything's gonna turn into shit. Like everything. Oh man, but before that happens, Oh yeah! Oh yeah, here we go. Oh wait, we have a surprise? What's the surprise? That the Predator could have been much different than what it is today. Oh, oh yeah, we're gonna start now? Are we gonna start that? Oh, here we go. Alright, we're gonna dive in. Ready? Here we go. Three. Hello and welcome to Secret Level, everybody! I'm Joey Parr, your host of Secret Level! I'm sorry, I messed it up. What do you mean? You didn't mess anything up. I did, listen to my voice. And joining me today Is Billy Always Messing It Up Fisher? Oh yeah! Alright! Here we go! Alright. No, seriously guys. Uh, welcome to Secret Level. This is a Geek Tyrant Podcast where we talk about, stuff about movies, things we love, things we find geeky, uh, just, I don't know, pop culture stuff and find like weird things about them. And kind of dive in and do like background work and research and we're looking for like cool stuff about how things were made and experience that happened on sets of films and stories that you may have never heard of. It's like a lot of Pointless trivia. A lot of pointless movie trivia, but it's fun! I like it. You know, so hey, if you're having a fun time, Uh, if, if, uh, we're having a good time, If everybody's just having a good time, living it up, Partying, life, you know, Enjoy! Enjoy the show, we hope you do. Alright, so, in this episode, We're going to talk about predator, but not like the whole thing. We're not going to really go into details on how it was made and stuff like that. We're going to specifically focus on one aspect of this movie. Yes. That is going to be. How Jean Claude Van Damme was originally cast as The Predator. This was gonna be his first big Hollywood gig. Right. And I was just kind of curious to know kind of the whole story of what happened, why he was cast, why things didn't work out. And so we dove right in, found a bunch of stuff, uh, read a bunch of interviews on the matter, and, and got some answers. And so we're gonna share this story with you, this Hollywood tale. Please, I'm excited. this is probably one of the most Interesting what ifs in movie history. It absolutely is. And this is something that we've like a lot of us have heard about before. Yes, but we didn't know the truth or the true facts behind it. Yeah. I really didn't know the story. I just knew that, Hey, Van Damme, uh, was nearly the predator. He, he was cast and they shot stuff. With him as this alien bounty hunter creature in the 1987 sci fi horror action classic. Yes. Yes. Yeah. I mean, here's the thing. With somebody just saying to you, Hey, Jean Claude Van Damme was almost the predator in The Predator, I guarantee what you're thinking is nowhere close to what it actually was. What the, yeah, it's very What he actually looked like. Oh, the original designs and everything, we're gonna get into that because the whole original design is one of the main reasons why things just did not work out. And I'm so glad. It's a blessing in disguise. Yes, it really is. That things did not work out with Van Damme, right? 100 percent a blessing to the skies Wow What we got in predator was a million times better than what we were originally going to get So yeah, let's talk about this a little bit Joey did most of the research on this if not all of the research I just watched videos and laughed so you watch videos of me doing the research right because I record everything I do It is quite, it's quite fetching. Yes. So, what do you got for us today? What's on our Predator plate this evening? Well, you know, the classic Predator movie is known for its intense action, suspense, and at the time, groundbreaking special effects. And they almost had, Like you said, they always had this very different predator that was gonna be played by none other than Jean Claude Van Damme, the martial arts badass master of mayhem. Wow, that was really good. Thanks. Yeah, um, do you remember what the first Jean Claude Van Damme movie was that you saw? The first one that I saw? Yeah, that you can remember like your first time seeing Jean Claude Van Damme. Actually, yes I can. Okay, what movie? It was Street Fighter. Really? I think so. That's the one I rem It wasn't Bloodsport? I don't think I saw Bloodsport until like I was in high school. Crazy! Okay. Cause, cause, cause I was only Wow, that blows me away. Because, what, uh, I know we made all these movies but my You know, I wasn't, like, watching, like, my parents never took me to Jean Claude Van Damme action films. I get it. You know, so I think the only, the first one that I saw, the first one I recall seeing was Street Fighter. was Street Fighter. That was so amazing. But I don't Like, that blew me away. Yeah, I don't know. Cause I can't think, it wasn't, like, it wasn't until high school that I kind of really dove into is filmography. Like, it's like, other stuff. When did Street Fighter come out? Um, we're gonna look that up right now because I don't remember. Um, but, when I was a kid, I always thought he was Russian because he was a Russian dude in the movie No Retreat, No Surrender. And I wanted to be like him so bad until I tried to do the splits and then that went out the window. Um, so yeah. Billy was never the same. I was never the same. I would never attempt another. Splits again. Um, okay, we've got This is amazing. This makes me so happy that Street Fighter was your first uh, foray into uh, Jean Claude Van Damme. Yeah, it's 1994. What were the, what were some, name some films real quick. What are some films? Huh? Before that, there was Time Cop. Oh, that Time Cop was before that? Yeah. Okay. Go back. Go back. Okay. It wasn't, it wasn't street fire.'cause I've seen, I saw both of those, so keep going. Okay. So yeah, we have time Cop. Yep. Hard target. Yep. Last Action. Hero. He was in Last. Action Hero. Yes. I don't, yeah. As himself. Okay. Keep going. Universal Soldier. Oh yeah. Wow. What am I doing here? All right. No one knows. Let's go. Okay. There's like, uh, double Impact Lion Heart. Yeah. Kickboxer. Okay. Cyborg. Okay, yeah, I didn't see those when I was a kid. I didn't see those. Yeah, I mean, that's understandable. Uh, apparently he was a spectator in Breakin the original Breakin Okay. Alright. Yeah. Well. Yeah, so. Then I'd say something like around Hard Target might have been like the first movie I saw him in. Oh, yeah. Cause I definitely saw Hard Target. I just didn't realize that was after Street Fighter. Look, the only reason I give Street Fighter any credit is because, um, Because it was the best. video game movie ever made? Ever made, for that second. It was, um, It was more of Raul Julia's last role, that's why I kinda keep it a little bit more, uh, in the like column, but yeah, no, um, other than that it was crap. So. Sorry, I'm taking a hard stance on Street Fighter the movie. Yeah, take the hard stance. Someone's got to. Someone's got to. Yeah, shoot, man. But yeah, but before that, before all this went down, before no retreat, no surrender, we had Jean Claude Van Damme. Yeah, he's just like this aspiring young action star looking to, like, showcase his speed and martial arts and roadhouse kicks and splits. Splits. The epic splits. Man. In an epic action movie, do you think he would have done the splits as the Predator if the Predator could have done the splits? That's, he, that, we're going to get into that in a little bit because they talk about the range of motion he had in that suit. And if he were to do the splits, I think he would have probably died in that suit. But, you know, and I was wrong, he did no retreat, no surrender before Predator. So, my bad. Okay. Well, it's all good. Hey, hey, we just do what we can and we have fun, whatever. No one's going to reach through this podcast and punch us in the face for getting some things wrong. Well, I just don't want Jean Claude Van Damme showing up at my house and punching me in the face. That could very well happen. Yeah, I think so. Okay. Um, that's kind of why I'm doing this episode because I want to see if he'll actually show up at one of our places. You have to call him a bad name, Billy. I'm not gonna call him a bad name. Nope. Nope. I You have to insult him at some point in this, he will be insulted, but we're gonna, we're gonna go, we're gonna do this. Well, the thing is, it wasn't really his fault. Like none of it, it wasn't his fault. None of none of this was his fault. So the whole idea behind casting him was to basically leverage his martial arts skills, right? Right. To create this. Nimble, acrobatic predator creature, uh, that would be unlike any kind of alien creature we've ever seen before in a movie. Right. That was the whole point. We get it. I mean, that would've been a great thing if they would've just If they could've, if they could've pulled it off, it would've been awesome. Maybe. Maybe. Maybe. We hope. We hope it would be good. But then once, uh, once things kinda got rolling, the whole reality Of things kind of hit hard, right? Everyone involved in the movie was like, Oh shit. How, how are we going to pull this off? We can't, this is awful. I mean, not only was the suit restrictive to his actions, but it also looked dumb. Yes. Yes. Oh my goodness, it looked, um. Yeah. Like, if you ever saw the original Super Mario movie, well, we're gonna show you guys pictures, but if you're listening to this, imagine in your head the Goombas from the original Super Mario Bros. movie, the one with John Leguizamo, and just extend their face out a little bit. So, huge body, little head, like, some kind of beak thing. And, and there you go. Everything was like made outta like foam. Yeah. So, so weird looking. I mean, this movie definitely would've put Van Dam on the map. Maybe. I don't know if they could have, if, if they could have properly pulled it off. Yes. Yes, he could have put him on the map in a good way. Had they actually followed through with him, his career might have been dead on the spot. Who knows? Probably not, probably not. He probably wouldn't have made it. We'll see. Anyway, initially he and the casting director of the film, Jackie Birch, they were on the same page. Birch told the Hollywood Reporter in 2017 that Jean Claude Van Damme was someone who used to constantly come into my office, jumping up in the air, showing me his moves, begging me for work. So finally, I said to producer Joel Silver, he'd be great as the Predator because no one moves like him. I mean, he really is quite amazing. But now Now, I just want to see, I just now just imagine Jean Claude Van Damme going into this casting director's office all of the time just jumping around, showing off his mark, like not even like, like just flinging open the door and like doing a jump kick inside of the office, and just like pulling off some crazy moves, not even saying a word, pointing at the casting director, just pointing his finger at him, you And then walking out, just walking out of the room. No words were exchanged. He just jumps in, flip, flip, kick, chop, chop. Yeah. Rolls out of the room. That's it. That's it. Yeah. Love it. once he was cast, so the issues just started popping up immediately. The original predator suit, as we talked about before, was designed to be sleek and agile to accommodate Van Damme's skills. As, as an action martial artist, but it faced like so many issues or so many challenges. Uh, it limited Van Damme's movement in the end, like, rather than like enhancing it, like they wanted it to, it just took it away, basically. And the suit's initial design was far, far from the menacing figure audience would later see when the movie came out. And as Billy kind of described before, it was this bizarre looking, bug eyed creature with a long head. And it just looked really weird. And I believe the suit was pink, right? It was, it was red so that it would contrast against the, um, the forest. So it's not like a, yeah, it's not like a completed suit. This is all foam, just like Testing, you know, they were just testing it and the aliens design this did when this design came through it was nothing like the Executives had envisioned for it. It was just off the rails in an interview with Matt Winston the actor and son of the late special effects artist Stan Winston Wait, what were you going to say? Oh, I was just going to agree with you on this. Like, they had this grand vision, but, sometimes when you give the decision to somebody and they're the director of the movie, maybe you should give them some limits on what they think they can do. Yeah, yeah. So, FX artist Steve Johnson, who actually worked on designing the original suit, uh, Recalled an executive meeting that included the film's director, who is John, John, uh, John McTeran, producer Joel Silver, and he said, with great pomp and ceremony, McTeran comes in and slams down a bunch of designs of The Predator that have already been done by a production designer. They said, here's what we want you to make. What they needed was a character with a Backward bent reptilian legs, extended arms, and a head that was out there. I mean, and that's essentially what we got, but just imagine trying to do like a flip, or I don't know how, John. Like, when you see this costume, you're like, how is he gonna move in that? Right. It's absolutely ridiculous. Yeah. Johnson said the original Alien designs, though ahead of its time, were awful. And the protruding head especially sucked. When talking about that, he said, And they wanted to shoot on the muddy slopes of Mexico in the real jungles. It was virtually physically impossible to do. Johnson warned them it wouldn't work, but proceeded with the design. His team made a red version of the suit made of thick rubber as a cloaking device. This, uh, it's explained that the scenes were to be shot against the greenery of the jungle and red is the opposite of green on the color wheel. And so. That's why they did that, because, you know, Billy described that earlier. Thanks, Billy. Um. I got you. I'm here for you, buddy. Yeah, I'm just going through notes, so I'm rehashing old crap. Here we go. Okay, okay. I'm moving on. I'm moving on. Gosh. I went too fast. I went too fast. Van Damme was obviously unhappy with the role. He signed on with the expectation of showcasing his martial arts skills, and possibly gaining more exposure for his career. Like his early career, like he was like ready to like market himself, pump himself up. Instead he found himself hidden behind these layers of latex and rubber, unrecognized and unable to perform anything that he thought he would be doing. So he was clearly frustrated at the situation. And the final straw, that, that just like, kinda like, well, the final straw, I said it, I have no, nothing else to add to that. it came during a test shoot in the jungles of Mexico. The suit's impractical design combined with the challenging environment and Van Damme's dissatisfaction led to an really, like, messed up situation, like a bad situation. So, realizing the original concept for the Predator was not working, the production team decided to go in a different direction, which makes sense. I mean, absolutely. I mean, Van Damme was obviously upset because, you know, he wanted to be that. Evil villain kind of thing, but they're hiding his face. It could have just been any stunt man in that suit. Yeah. It in no way showcased him. Exactly. Exactly. Uh, McTiernan was there through this whole thing, this, uh, location shoot in Mexico and due to the problems with the alien soup that had been built by the studio that built it was boss film studios. And although they had, objected to the creature design. Signed off by McTieran and Joe Silver. they recognized that it's execution would be problematic and the company had delivered it anyway as contracted. They knew it wasn't gonna work, but they were paid to do this job and so they did it. You know? Silver and McTieran said, Hey, this is the suit design, make it. They're like, uh, this isn't gonna work, but okay. And as they predicted, the design, uh, which they said looked spectacular in like it's, it's uh, conception model form when they like designed it like that. It was nearly impossible to realize a full size suit worn by a performer. So, they, they, you know, they came up with a cool design that they really like, but they're like, you're not going to get what you think you're going to get out of this. Absolutely. So, when you look at the It's the maquette that was created for the Predator, the original statue. Kind of like the original design that they wanted. The leg extensions had a third leg joint. Okay. Nice. And that third leg joint pretty much prevented the performer from walking on his own two legs. That's awful. Yeah. So instead he had to be put, he had to be put inside of a harness. And hung from wires mounted to an overhead boom arm? Mm, okay. With puppet legs extending below him? This was a time consuming, complicated setup. It was completely impractical, especially, you gotta remember, they are trying to pull this off. In the dense Mexican jungle. He had to love that. That had to feel real good. Yeah. Nice and cool. I mean, he was basically like, I'm Jean Claude Van Damme and I'm a marionette puppet. It's basic. Absolutely. It's basically what it was. And I appreciate him for that. Yeah. So, one of the team members at Legacy Effects who worked on, On the film, said the basic problem was that they were on location in a jungle with no controlled sound stages and sets and they needed a creature that could climb and fight and walk through water and everything else you see in the film. The original suit just didn't fit the action requirements. And van Damme, who was 5'10 was no match for the suit's protruding head. Even while on stilts, his head was in the suit's neck. Right? So Johnson recalled Van Damme complaining on set, finding out that he was essentially an invisible stuntman. And it infuriated him. Yeah, I'm sure it pissed him off. He was trying to be like, He was trying to start his career. Exactly. And so, Johnson said he didn't realize that he was just kind of a stuntman, right? We get him out there for the first shot and he's just seething. We get him back in at lunch. And you could see his eyes through the rubber muscles of the neck. And he's like, I hate this head. I hate it. I hate it! I HATE IT! Nice. Ha ha ha. I mean, yeah. That sounds Yes. Yes. Now the suit had been specifically built for Jean Claude Van Damme. Right? Mm hmm. And Uh, Johnson added they wanted to just tell the guy to hop around like a frog. And, now you gotta remember, Van Damme was there to showcase his, like, karate champion skills. His splits, his roundhouse kicks, his punches of death, right? Yeah. Okay, okay. And it was Jean Claude Van Damme, and this is, Johnson continues. And it was Jean Claude Van Damme who had no idea what he was getting into. He was just off the boat from Brussels. He thought he was going to show his martial arts abilities to the world. So, Jean Claude comes in for his fittings. And, remember the cloaking device? Yes. Beautiful, beautiful effect in this day. Mm hmm. And then he goes back into the whole like, red and green thing, suit colors. They, they love, they, they all love talking about the red and green suit color. Well, I don't know if you know this or not, but green is opposite of red on the color wheel. Fancy. Fancy! Oh, man. Speaking of fancy Yes? Now, a word from our sponsor. Are you tired of action figures that always fight for truth and justice? Boring, right? These truth telling action figures cluttering up your collection? Well, get ready for the most outrageously awesome and most untruthworthy action figure of all time, Captain Lie Face! Yeah! That's right, folks. Captain Life Face is the action figure you never knew you needed. It's got more tall tales than a fisherman at a storytelling competition. 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Captain Lifeface may be way too suitable for politicians and lawyers, so use responsibly. That was the best thing you've ever done. Oh my gosh. So you think that's going to be okay? It's going to be perfect. I was not planning on reading it like that. That was not planned. As I just got into it, the more I was just like, I'm just going with it. Dude, I couldn't, I had to look somewhere else. Dad, could you understand what I was saying? My worry is I'm just yelling too hard that people won't get it. You're, everything is said so clear with every yell, it's fin that's what makes it so funny. Okay, alright. Everyone will get it, and it'll be, it'll be a thousand percent worth it. Okay, alright. We're gonna go from that to this. Yeah, I know. You're gonna go back to convoys. I don't know how you do it. And Van Dam, so he voiced his issues with the original Predator alien suit in a 1989 interview with Starlog magazine. You remember Starlog magazine, Billy? Not even close. Wait, are you serious? You don't remember Starlog magazine? I do. It just sounded funny to me. Dude, that was our internet back then. I know, that's where we got all the cool news. Right. So crazy. Alright, anyway. So, in this interview, he points to miscommunication. Whether it was intentional or deliberate, we don't know. But he said, They said I would be in a tight leotard with half human, half animal makeup on my face. Then I got a full body cast and in the creative outfit, my arms and legs were on metal stilts. So that's what he's saying. Okay. Yeah. That's gotta be rough, man. Yeah, there's, there's no way he's doing any action in that thing. Yeah. And I'm really curious to know, like,'cause he thought he was gonna be in a tight Leo leotard. With half human half animal makeup on his face like That vision for predator does not work at all because even back in the day They they couldn't they weren't going to replace him with cgi Because they didn't have cgi. Yeah, I don't I don't so he literally thought that he was gonna be a black leotard alien with Makeup on his face, right? That's what he thought the predator was going to be and that would have been just completely awful That would have been worse than what they tried to do Yeah and the thing is too is that whoever sold this to him wasn't in the same mindset as Uh, McTiernan or Johnson, they, they, they were just like, Hey, you could just show off everything you got. And then just to get them, like they sold them a rotten bag of beans. Yeah, but not only that, not only was the cost, you know, just to add on to the cost, to this costume design. Uh, it took them 20 minutes to get into it. Not, not too bad. Like, there's people that spend like these days when they get in the makeup chair. Like Doug Jones will spend like 10 hours getting makeup put on and off and all that stuff. So 20 minutes isn't like a thing, but apparently back then spending 20 minutes getting in and out of something was an issue. yeah, but regardless, the suit, uh, Van Damme explained that the suit was so dangerous that if he had fallen, tried to do one of his stunts and he. Tried to brace himself with his arms. He would have broken them. Like, that's how the suit was. Like, he would have broken arms had he fallen. Additionally, being in the costume impaired his vision and obviously that made it more difficult for him, right? And then the suit also made it hard for him to breathe. And not to mention the being in a rubber suit in the middle of a hot jungle in Mexico would be pure torture. Van Damme said in that interview, they wanted me to make a big jump. And then I told them, It's impossible. I know my limitations, and I'll break my legs. I mean, he knew it. He knew it was unsafe. So, a stuntman was hired to execute the jump that Van Damme refused to perform, and the stuntman, uh, well, broke his leg. So, Van Damme called it. And while Van Dam seemed to back up this account in a 2009 interview with The Hollywood Reporter, there are supervisors on the film that denied that any injuries happened on set. He said, uh, one of them said, Nobody broke their pee pee leg! And the film's assistant director Uh, that came from the film's assistant director. But, uh, Van Damme says that the guy broke his leg. So, you know, choose who you want to believe. I kind of just want to believe Van Damme because You know, he's Van Damme. Right, right, right, right. I mean Plus it makes things more interesting when, uh, stuntmen break things when they perform stunts. Right. Makes for a meatier story, you know, as a journalist. You need to have that meaty journalism tagline. Stuntman breaks their leg, but who knows he might not have broke the leg. Yeah, exactly We'll never know because both parties are gonna keep with their stories. Yes, exactly regardless of whether an injury Happened on set of the predator the producers sent Jean Claude Van Dam went packing, went home, tried to start over from his side of things, and the, production team went back to the drawing board to develop a new and safer design. For the Alien Predator. The new suit didn't require the use of stilts, and the role of the Predator was eventually filled by Kevin Peter Hall, a towering 7'2 actor who brought an entirely different, more imposing presence to the character. And the Predator suit was redesigned by Stan Winston, creating the iconic look that has become synonymous. With the franchise. Dude, and by far, it's a way better design than the one that they have for I love the Predator design. It is one of the best alien designs ever put on film. It is so badass. It is so hardcore. It's so cool looking. It's so awesome. And You know, every time I watch the Predator, I'm like, Yeah, this Guy is awesome. He is, he's a, he's a formative, villain for Schwarzenegger, Schwarzenegger to go up against. Like, cause he was huge, like all the guys were huge in that movie, but Arnold was clearly the thickest, and this was gonna be the only alien that would stand out. Dude, they were all thick, man. Go look at that, watch that movie again, dude, and when they like, I did. And when they like, do that thing, Yep. You know, and they like flex their, Their little arm wrestling match. They flex their muscles. Yeah, they were equally as big man. Those guys were awesome, right? Shane black was the weakest out of all of them. I Wasn't too sad when he died, you know, of course, he's gonna be the first to go. Well, yeah, you know, but yeah anyway Arnold Schwarzenegger was the guy who recommended Stan Winston to come in and redesign the suit. Schwarzenegger worked with Winston on The Terminator so they kind of had a relationship already. And Stan Winston jumped on board and he said in an interview, I met with John McTiernan and Joel Silver and we talked about The Predator. My feeling from reading the script was that The Predator had to be a real character a, rather than a generic creature. He needed to be a very specific character. And that's what we came up with. And yeah, we already talked about how great that design was. They did a great job. Yeah, it's absolutely beautiful. Well, everyone involved with the film has their version of the story. Jean Claude Van Damme explained his side of things in an interview with the Hollywood Reporter, Van Damme explained that when he was, uh, you know, talked about getting cast in the film, he said, I came to the studio, they made me run around, and I jump, and they say, this guy can jump very high, so, uh, yes, he's in. So, you know, they see him jump like, you know, 15 feet in the air, and they're like, oh yeah, we gotta cast this guy in this movie. He talked about, the, the start of the issues. He says, I go to this place and they put me on sticks and woods and they start to melt all the cast on me and it's boiling hot. I like to breathe, you know. They've got to do my head and everything. That's a quote, just so you know. Yeah, that's an actual quote. That's an actual quote. Uh, so I'm just like, you know, take it as you will. He continued saying, I've got my friend next to me and I said, Man, I ain't gonna make it. They put in my mouth a tube. And at that time, I was just a stand guy. I was covered in that cast for at least 20 minutes. And they told him, if you feel like you cannot breathe, just go like this with your finger and gestures with his finger, and I'll put it away for you. They wanted him to go five more minutes, but he could not. When talking about wearing the suit, Van Damme said, my feet were in the casts. When Joel Silver asked me to jump, I knew it was going to be a bad one. I said, this is impossible, Joel. I think we're going to have a problem. Then he replaced me. The guy who did my stunt, something bad happened to him, and then they told, they did the more safe outfit. Yeah. Are you following? Is everyone following? It's kind of like he put a bunch of different sentences in a bag and just started pulling out random ones. We get the idea, it's just his, um, his Quoting him is a very difficult thing. Yes. And that is the insult where he's going to knock on your door and beat the living shit out of you, Billy. So be careful. Ah! I'll kick his Belgian ass. Ah! Ah! Ah! Alright. Let's go. Van Damme eventually said, I was happy that I listened to my intuition. And that he didn't get hurt. Like, he refused to do those things so he wouldn't get hurt. I get it. Van Damme went on to tell Starlog that he didn't bear the folks associated with the movie any ill will. He said, What's an alien? It's a guy inside a plastic suit. That's not my goal in life. Which is, to be a good actor. He is an Academy Award winning actor now. Oh man. Sorry, I just thought that was funny. the whole experience, like the whole, like the, this is what was interesting in like reading about, like when I was doing research on this, there's some, there's a lot of different stories out there. There's a, he said, uh, he said, there's lots, all kinds of different things, people have their own opinions on this. And their own stories. Actor Bill Duke does corroborate Van Damme's story though, that he was set up for failure. Okay. So Duke says in an interview that the predator that you saw was not the original predator. Oh, so, okay, so yeah, we've been talking about this, so he's gonna, like, rehash some stuff. Okay. The predator that you saw was not the original predator. Did you know that? The original predator was a much smaller creature, and they were going to put the special effects on his body in post production. He goes on to say, he had a stealth suit on, and they put him in wires, and he flew from trees, and The wires on his back looked like he was flying. He had passed out twice from dehydration. Holy crap. Yeah. The producer said, If you pass out again, I'm going to fire you. Two weeks go by, and the guy passes out, and the producer goes over and fires him. That person was Jean Claude Van Damme. So there's, there's, there's another story, right? So, Jean Claude Van Damme keeps passing out and he gets threatened to be fired if he passes out again, and then he does, and they fire him, like, wha, what? Oh, man. Now, yeah, exactly. But then you have McTiernan who tells this completely different story, right? So, on the 30th The film's 30th anniversary. He claims, he claims, right? And we've talked about all this stuff being shot, right? Throughout this. So he claims, they never even shot anything with Van Damme. And that the young actor didn't understand the visual effects element of the costume. And I believe that part. But the fact that he said that they didn't shoot anything, I mean, there's footage you can watch. Right, right, so you can actually see it. We've seen the pictures, we've seen them move. Yeah. and, and, the fantastical opinions of how he stacked up against the film star Arnold Schwarzenegger, blah, blah, blah. Right. now, so people, like I say, like, people have these different stories, and then on this other side of the story, it goes that Jean Claude Van Damme had found out during pre production that his Bloodsport was movie was financed. The Predator production refused to let him out of his contract, which then caused Jean Claude Van Damme to sabotage his role and force them to fire him. And this lines up with, uh, other quotes, uh, which allege that Van Damme became difficult and angry when he saw the costume design and learned of his role. So now there's, so this, these other people, right, these This other side of the story, they're saying that Van Dam, just wanted out so he could do Bloodsport. So he became this difficult actor to work with on the set and forced himself to be fired. Well, I mean, this is not the first time we've heard that he was a difficult actor. But, I mean, so, I mean, all of these could be true. We don't know. I don't, all of them can't be true, Billy. They could be true. There could be only one, Billy. There could be only one truth. Hmm. I just don't know which one it I mean, obviously with the way things work, like, even the effects guy talked about the suit and how stupid the suit design was and stuff like that, how it wasn't gonna work. So it makes sense to me that the whole suit design aspect of it is what didn't work and what caused Van Damme to end up being let go or Just, it's not working. So move on with your career kind of thing. But it's still kind of, you know, with, with so many stories it is, might be hard for people like to know it's, it's kind of hard to know what the truth is. Right. Exactly. And that's what also makes it difficult is that you've got Jean Claude Van Damme and you've got Johnson and McTiernan that are saying these things to each other. And then you've got Billy Duke, the guy who plays. Billy in the movie. Mm-Hmm. saying something completely different. So yeah. Just completely like off the wall. Like, wait, no one's talking about that. Yep. Um, I'm going with him. I'm siding with him. Alright. Yeah. That's what we do. Yeah. Yeah. He doesn't have any skin in the game. He's got nothing to lose. Exactly. And I, it's much more fun. Ah, well, while the story has been told many times before MCT reiterates, uh, in another interview that Jack Van Dam quit the film. Okay, we're going back to different stories. He said, We never shot anything with him. It was a complete screw up with his agent trying to hustle him into a job and didn't know what the movie was. It's silly. It was really silly. That was McTieran. So while it's kind of impossible to know the true story, but, you know, Billy's gonna go with, Bill Duke. Mmhmm. And I'm just gonna listen to the effects guys that created the suit and realize that that was a problem. And you know, it could be that Bill Duke was right. I don't know. I'm sticking with that one, man, because it's the most outrageous and I love it. Sounds good. Well, it is impossible to know the true story because there's so many stories out there. We all won. Because Van Damme's Bloodsport is awesome. It absolutely is. And so, yeah, so Van Damme finally got to like, showcase those martial arts skills on the big screen. Months after Predator was released. With the 1988 martial arts action movie Bloodsport, where he plays enters an underground martial arts tournament in Hong Kong called The Kumite. Yes, the Kumite. So, That's good. Yeah, and he's been fine. His career has been fine. You don't need to worry about Van Damme It's kind of crazy though that throughout all these years it always comes up and someone will ask him about it So hey, what happened with that predator movie? Well, let me tell you I'm gonna give you a whole different story this time. Yeah well Um, now I just want somebody to take it and replace the actual predator with the red suit predator. Like, animate it to look like that. Yeah. Don't use special effects other than the red suit and see what happens. I'd do it. Yeah, I'd like to see that. That would be fun. That would be hilarious. It would make me so happy! Yeah, someone do that. That'd be great. Someone with talent and skill. Unlike us, we just make this up as we go along. But in retrospect, Van Damme's departure from Predator was a blessing in disguise for both him and the production team. Because the film went on to become a huge, awesome success, and it was a great film. And I don't think it would have been as awesome as it was had Van Damme stuck around. So, regardless of who is telling the truth, Everyone wins. Everyone wins in the end. Except, except the stuntman that might have broke his legs. That's the only guy I feel sorry for in this whole thing. And there you go. And we're gonna end it with that, Billy. We're gonna end it with that comment. It is one of those fascinating what if stories though, but, yeah, thank you everybody for listening to our latest episode of secret level. Uh, we really appreciate it. Don't forget to follow us on our social networks at secret level on Twitter and, uh, Facebook. Uh, Yeah, I gotta start posting stuff there because I gotta slack. I've been slacking off on that. Don't kill me, please. I'm sorry. Unless Jean Claude Van Damme shows up at your door. Yeah, that's, that's, well, he's gonna show up at your door, Bill, so you lose. Oh, I'm good with that. But yeah, for all your movie geek news, hit up geektyrant. com. They host the podcast, kind of for real. I'm, I'm, you know, I write for geektyrant. com. I kind of do stuff there. So, so even though, you know, we get these long stretches where you're not getting this podcast because life happens and it just is hard sometimes, Uh, you can always go to geektired. com and get your daily, geek news feed. Also, also, I have this, like, I recently got this, uh, This, uh, Deadpool 3 spoiler, guys, like, I know something that's gonna happen in Deadpool 3, like, I, I know something, like, legit, like, really legit. I've been told not to tell anybody, and the person that told me doesn't listen to this podcast, so Ooh. Oh, man. Oh, man. Oh man. If I get caught though, he'll get fired, so I can't. Yeah, I can't do it. Billy knows though. I told Billy it's wonderful. I really hope it happens. I don't know, I just had to throw that in there just for a little tease. I will say this, it involves casting a casting of somebody that no one has ever guessed before. I will say that and it's gonna be and would be pretty, and audience is gonna. Flip the freak out when they see it. It's good to see who it is and who he plays. It's going to be. Awesome. Alright, buddy. Well, it's time to go, I guess. Yeah, yeah. Anyways, thank you, everybody. Hope you have a wonderful day. Hope you have a wonderful afternoon. Hope you have a wonderful evening. And Good journey! Good journey. Music playing, music playing. We're gonna let this kind of play out just a little bit longer. Blah, blah, blah. We're gonna do this. We're gonna do this. We're gonna keep, we're gonna let it keep going. A little bit longer. Little bit longer. Man, if people, like, stay and listen to stuff, like, they're always in for a treat if they, like, keep listening to this. You know what I mean? It's absolutely true. It'd be, it'd be well worth their time. Yeah, exactly, exactly. Music is cool, though. I like the music, yeah. Yeah, the music makes me happy. Eat beans! Thankfully. Is a