WILLOW - "Out of The Way, Peck!"

In Episode 32 of Secret Level, we talk about George Lucas and Ron Howard's iconic 1987 fantasy film Willow. This is one of those movies that we have very fond memories of when we were kids and it’s a film that we’ve enjoyed revisiting over the years. This is just one of those films that take us to our happy place and we wanted to see if we could find some information about the making of it that we never knew before, and we did! We hope you enjoy this episode where we dive into Willow!

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Transcript

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So we can start this thing anytime. We can begin whenever you're comfortable, We can talk about stuff. Talk about cool stuff. I love stuff. Talk about the best stuff. It's what we do here on secret level. We talk about the best stuff. Only the best. Only the best for us. Only the best. Some people don't like the best. Who doesn't like the best? I don't know. I don't know. Billy. Who knows? Who knows? Okay, well we're for those who like the best. We're here to give it to you here. They gave you the best. The best because you're the best around, nothing's gonna ever take you down. Right. So speaking of the best, um, I've been noticing we've get, been getting a lot of traffic lately, a lot more comments, a lot more, uh, good things coming our way. Good things. Lots of good things, lots of, lots of good things, lots of unexpectedly cool things happening. Right? And then there's that, and then there's the one guy, the one guy. Then there's the one guy who doesn't like us. Yeah. But what what made me happy about the bad comment was, is that he dusted off as the SOS and really went to town. used the biggest, most insulting words he could find. Yes, yes. And you know what? That just brings joy to my heart. Im glad he did that. He gave us a one star and I'm kind of proud of it. I'm like it, proud of it. I was thinking about making it in a t-shirt. You should. I should. Cause people are gonna go one star and then the quote. Yeah, it's great. Oh man. But that's the thing with the quote is, is that people are gonna read it and go, no one talks like that. Well, we've talked about it. I don't know if you wanna read it or not. Oh, I mean, gladly. Otherwise people are gonna be like, what are they talking about? What's this quote? What's going on here? The quote, they keep talking about this quote. okay. So we're not gonna give the guy his just dues, um, because I don't think I could say it as grandiose as he would like, but I'm gonna try. Okay. Let's hear it. Hmm. As much as I wanted to, like the show, the slobbering adulation that they grant to absolute crap turned me away. Hmm. I love this guy. Yeah. He's a, he's a man after my own heart. I would like to have him on the show at some point. I mean, I do too, just cuz I wanna see if he actually talks like that. Sling adul. Yeah. Right. Whatever. Oh, that was it. That's what he didn't like right there. You did a sling aion. Oh, that's true. That's true. Okay. Say you just did it. You just did it. I like it. I can't even pronounce Aian Yeah. I mean, that's okay. Just joking. It's not joking for all of us. Joking. I'm joking. Oh, okay. So bud, what's uh, what's new, what's happening in your life out of the way? Peck? Ah, yes. Yeah. Still I, I don't care. I love this movie. This is, there's your, here it is. There's your slobbering right there. How much you love the movie I do. I love it. You slo the love all over the, all over the podcasting world. I regularly use the phrase stupid fat dini on a regular basis and no one knows what I'm talking about. Well, I, I always just say out of the way, peck, no matter who it is, right. Cause I mean, why not? Someone's like cuts and cuts in front of me and traffic. I'm just gonna hawk my horn and be like, out of the way peck Right. I don't know. They should know that. They were just insulted is so funny. Yeah. Of that line. But anyway, as for the week, uh, I went to a very cool field festival. I spent a whole week in Provo, Utah at a film festival called Film Quest, and yes, it is probably one of the most fun film festivals that I've attended. And really, yeah, it's, it's been around for nine years tomorrow, uh, tomorrow, um, next year is year 10 for it. I've kind of been going on and off since the beginning. Mm-hmm. But this year, uh, I went for the full, for the full week and it was just an absolute blast. And I saw the best lineup of films that I had seen at a film festival in a long time. There was man, maybe one or two that I didn't like. Right. Hundreds of short films that I watched and, a few features that I watched. So that's great. There's a lot of talent out there, like a lot of filmmaking talent. I'm like watching these, these films and I'm like, holy cow, how are these people not, uh, making great movies in Hollywood right now that just, I was super impressed by the work that these, that these directors, writers, and directors are pumping out. So it kind of like gave me hope for the future of cinema that there are people out there that are making great films. I mean, you may never get to see any of these, which is just so sad unless you're like, unless you're actively looking at for short films online to watch, uh, but or going to film festivals yourself. But yeah, it was great Film Quest. Nice, great film festival genre. I really wanted to go this year. Um, I'm sad that it didn't get to go. Yeah, I'll a point. Next year. It's sci-fi stuff like that, so. Right, man, it's great. I did make a list of all the short films that I watched that I absolutely loved, and, once those short films go live on YouTube or any other video streaming service, I will find them and post them on Geek Tyrant for people to watch. So that's the plan. Oh yeah. Very good. I'm excited. Yeah. You were telling me how much you liked it. I was, uh, I was quite jealous. So I guess I'll have to make it for the 10th anniversary. Just kind of a, just a quick, uh, one film that stuck out that I'm just thinking about right now because it made me laugh was called Big Red Bastard, and it's a perfect, it's a no. Short film Uhhuh about a detective who is going around looking for the Kool-Aid man. who is, who is out trashy buildings and murdering people. Yes. Finally someone's taking him down and it's so funny. This is great. Anyway, just, just one out of many, that one just kind of stuck, stuck out in my mind right now. Well, thankfully cuz that was originally the name of the podcast was Big Red Bastard. I'm glad we didn't go that route. Yeah. So what about you Billy? really just, um, this whole week I've been spending a lot of time at home, so I've really gotten into like a lot of the British procedurals. Um, I started watching, look, you go British procedurals. Wow. Right? I don't know what to say. I'm surprised you're not speaking in an accent. I tried. It's horrible. And I don't want to offend anybody, so we're gonna go with this. This is what I can do. Okay. But, um, I started watching the, the British Crime Show, line of duty started in, 2012. And it is fantastic. I really enjoy it. Where are you watching this show at Netflix? Um, you, you could watch it on Peacock. Peacock. Okay. Yes. Just a warning, if you're watching it on Peacock, they put commercials in a show that wasn't meant for commercials, so they'll literally put a commercial in, in the middle of a sentence. And so you just kind of gotta get over that. It was bumming me out at first, but now I'm, I'm kind of expecting it. It's, it's more fun this way. Okay. Okay. Yeah. So yeah, if we can get into that. Sweet. I'm listening to you, at your film festival that I was unable to attend, but yeah. So, but we both thought it was appropriate that, um, this month we're getting the Willow Series on Disney Plus. Yes, we are. Sequel series. The sequel series. I've been very excited about this show. I've actually watched the first few episodes of it. it's probably out by now, but we're recording this now. It's not out yet. Uh, and I gotta press screener to watch like the first seven episodes, so I'm kind of getting through that now. Would you say it falls in line with what the movie brought us? Yeah. It's got the same, spirit, the same humor. It's got the same vibes all around, I think. I think they nailed it. Okay. So far I'm really enjoying what I've seen so far. There's a few little different things here and there., that feel different than the movie. Mm-hmm. But it's expected because we are, you know, not living in the eighties anymore. And, uh, people, people, of course, people. But, but before we go any further, because we completely, completely miss this, Billy. Oh no. What did we miss? We missed the introduction of the whole podcast. We missed our intro. Oh, that's right. This is Big Red Bastard Um, it, it's a movie podcast. No, it's not. You're confusing everybody now. Oh, that's right. Hello everybody. Welcome to Secret Level. I am your host, joy Par. And joining me is Billy the Peck Fisher. Yay. Out of the way, Peck and just never gets old. It does not. Oh yeah. And uh, yeah. So what we do on this podcast is a quick refresher for those of you just joining us. We talk about our favorite films and they really don't have to be our favorite. We're just watching old films in general that we grew up on that have left kind of a impression impression in our lives. Yeah. And we dig into the films. We find out things that we never knew before because it's fun to learn new things about movies that you grew up with. It has been a blast going through, a lot of these films that we've talked about. So, welcome. If this is your first time, welcome. We are. Glad to have you. Yep. Please enjoy. Yes. But yeah, so today we're hitting up, uh, the fantastic. Willow. Willow. Oh man. I cannot tell you how much I loved this movie when I saw it in the theater. Yeah, yeah. It really was something special, wasn't it? It's one of those things that just kinda stuck with you. I think re-watching it. One of my favorite things, one of the most memorable things about this movie that, that hits me hard in the nostalgia, uh, in that nostalgia place In your Heart. Place. In my heart, yes. Is the music. Yes. The music just like, like, it, like Cradles my heart. Right. Well, it's got that familiarity to it. Like you, you know, there's certain scenes where the music hits and that's that, that time and that place it, that's what it was meant to be. Yeah. It's like if there was a soundtrack to my life, it might, a lot of it might include that Willow soundtrack. Yeah, I can see that that musical score is just so beautifully composed, and that's just one of the, like the core elements of the movie that make it so fantastic. Like, my children love this movie. Yeah, it is. It is one of their favorites. We watch it anytime there's a chance to watch it. They have been salivating for the sequel series since it was dropped. The the news drop that they were making it. Yeah. So it's just one of those movies that anyone can get behind it. It's made for all ages. Yeah, for reals. Yeah. And I just love how like you opens up with this grand, epic movie and it opens up with this, with this woman taking care of this baby and before she's like ripped apart By these, these, uh, what were they called? I called them the devil dogs. The devil dogs, yeah. The things are nasty looking. Yeah. She sends this poor baby down the river hoping it survives and Right. Uh, luckily Willow's kids find it and bring willow in. But like I just, have to point out that I loved at Willow in the beginning is just like, Don't tell anybody about it. Let's just push it back down River. Forget we ever saw it But he is just like completely willing to, to sacrifice this child to stay out of trouble. That's the kind of, that's the kind of character that Willow starts out as in this movie. Right. You know? Oh man. And it's, it's so funny how, but then it quickly, that quickly turns and turns into this, the protector. Right? Right. At first he was kinda like that mad Marty character. He is like, ah, I'm just gonna leave it and I don't even care. Right. Right. But then like, it was just funny how like how that switch, how there was that switch and personality with him. Right. I think that was great. I think that's the perfect way to start it out. Because he was scared. Like that was his, yeah. Whole life. He was scared of everybody and everything. Like even willing to sacrifice a baby. To not get in trouble or not to, to cause problems. I don't wanna make waves with anybody. Right. Everyone in this town already hates me enough. Right, exactly. I don't wanna add to the, I don't want the attention I don't want burgle cut to come look at me. Yep. Dude, that guy, that guy, I'm sure he's a nice fellow, but I hated that dude when I was a kid. I was like, he's the worst Yeah. But I, all I'm saying is that it was a perfect intro. It starts off quick and it doesn't let you go the rest of the time. Oh, yeah. It, it holds, it holds your attention from beginning to end. And the best part we're, we're gonna talk about it a little bit later, but the best part about it is, is it felt like a familiar world, like a familiar, like you've been there. Yeah, you, you know, and I thought that was a great way for Ron Howard to do this, is to, you know, just make it comfortable. And I, I really enjoyed that. It's a comfort movie. It is 100% a comfort movie. It's like, if, if I'm feeling down in the dumps and I need a feel like I need a hug, right, I'll turn on Willow and I, and I'll get it. I'll get, I'll get that, uh, satisfaction that my soul is looking for. Exactly. See, there we go. I love it. And now that it's on Disney plus, we can watch it anytime. Anytime. All the time. All the time. All right. So what we got today for these people, I, there's a, there's a lot more information about this movie than I expected. Yeah, no, it's, it's a, it's great. I mean, there's, there's a, there's a ton of stuff. Out there for it. But why don't, why don't we start with a synopsis, Billy? Yeah. Oh, you want me to say it? Yeah, go for it. Oh, wow. It's not a big one today, but what do you, what do you mean it's not big let's just say it's Anell. One size synopsis. There you go. Yeah. Boisterous Bos fantasy adventure. About a hinges no one named Willow tasked with protecting an infant princess from an evil sourcer as queen. Boom. Boom. Short to the point, but that's basically the movie. Yeah. Y you don't wanna say anymore because you don't wanna give anything away. Yeah. But there's a lot of Easter eggs in this, namely in act, mainly in actors that are in it. But it was really cool the setup and the process. So what you got first today there, Joseph? Well, I wanted to ask you a question. Was Warwick Davis really only 17 years old when he shot this movie? 17 years old? Like that's, that's crazy. Cause he doesn't, he looks older than 17. He does look older than s I mean, and he is married with kids in the movie. Right? He's got two young children, which means Right, that he had to have been 14 when he got married and had kids. Well, here's the thing. So the actors who not, not even 14, no, he would've have been like 12 or 13. It gets better. So if you're going by the actual age of, Warwick Davis and the two actors playing his children Uhhuh, he was only 10 years older than the oldest one and 12 years older than the younger one. So he was 10 years old. 10 years old when he, when he started having kids. Yep. But I'm, I'm assuming they're, they're, they're going with the fact that we'd all think he's older. But Yeah, as a, as a child started himself, it did work. He did come off as being a, an older, just like an older soul. Like you felt like he, he could have been the data of these two kids. Exactly. Exactly. No, for sure. Yeah. So, It's kind of crazy cuz of course George Lucas was involved in a lot of films. He wasn't necessarily the director, but he was the key, force behind a lot of these movies. And he was the one pushing this movie. Yeah, it's his story. Yeah. He, you know, he came up with the story, helped the script. He was on the set as an executive producer, helping Ron Howard direct the film. Uh, so he played a very big role in the movie. Uh, and in fact, Willow came after he actually tried to secure the rights to the Hobbit Uhhuh. He was trying to, you know, he wanted to make his own Hobbit movie, but, uh, when he couldn't get that, he shifted to an original story, which has a lot of similarities to the Hobbit. It certainly does. It certainly does. And that, so you can see he was very, in this movie is very influenced by Tolkin Tolkien's work. Right. It's also cool and kind of interesting that the film, a lot of the film was actually shot in New Zealand in the eighties before Peter Jackson shot Lord of the Rings. And so it's like, you get that. I mean, New Zealand is this fantasy world that people like to shoot their films at Right. And it does, it brings, you, you recognize the scenery in the background, but it's also like, like got this, magical quality that makes it look like it's not of this world. Yeah, exactly. I've always wanted to visit New Zealand. I have never been, but I want to. Oh, well, maybe we should do a Lord of the Rings, uh, three part episode in New Zealand. That would be awesome. Let's do it. Yeah, that's, yeah. Like we have that kind of money. Yeah, exactly. Yep. But Lucas did specifically write this film, for Warwick Davis. Like that's who he wanted. they ended up sparking up this great relationship in, uh, star Wars Return of the Jedi. And, when talking about how that all happened, how that came about. Mm-hmm. Davis said in an interview in regards, Lucas, he said he liked what I was doing with the character, so he invited me to America to carry on filming over there. And while we were over there, I got my second lucky break because Kenny Baker, who is normally in R two, was also in Ewok and he went down with food poisoning and couldn't come and play the scene you see in the film with Carrie Fisher, the scene where she was discovered by an ewok. So they drafted me in that very morning as an emergency and I did the scene from that moment I was known as Wicked and the rest is history. He says, I got lucky from Kenny's misfortune. Well, it worked out. I mean, we've gotten so many great performances from him. Legendary performances. He's been in all of the major, well, besides Lord of the Rings. He's been in all of the major. Fantasy films. You know, he's got Harry Potter under his belts, star Wars. He's got this, I mean, yeah, the guy's fantastic. And it was in 1983 where Lucas first mentioned the possibility of Davis starring and Willow. Okay. And he said, it wasn't until 1987, I guess they thought I was old enough that they decided that this was the time to make it. Even though it was created with me in mind and everything else, it wasn't cut and dried with the casting. Ron Howard being the director, wanted to make sure that I was indeed the right man for the job. So I had to audition several times. Finally winning the role, which is nice actually having gone and won the role as opposed to just being handed it on a plate. Though, having George Lucas in your corner obviously helps. Absolutely. So even though like Davis was like, Lucas was like, this is your film, man. You're Willow. He still had to go out and audition and that's cool. I mean, and he really earned it then at that point. Oh yeah, for sure. Yep. But I think, I think in the end it was always gonna be Davis in that role. I don't, I don't think Lucas would've let anyone else have it, to be honest with you. Right. Absolutely. Yeah. I'm, I mean, he is so fun in this role. Like, and the struggle in his face the whole time is there, he couldn't leave Aurora Danon by herself at any point. He knew this. Well, he could at the very beginning. Well, he could. He could, but after he found her, he was willing to, to send her down the river. Yep. See you later kid. It's very Moses like situation. It really was. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. But he helped out. He got her and he did the deed man. Yeah. When preparing for the role. Davis had to learn a modified accent. He had to take care of a baby. Cuz you know, at 17 you don't know what it's like taking care of a baby. So they had to like give him baby courses Sure. I guess. Sure. Yeah. Uh, he had to learn how to ride a horse and how to sword fight. And also the most important part, how to become a sourcer and learn magic because Right. Willow is a magician. He is, he was a sorcerer's apprentice, one of the greatest magicians ever to have walked the earth. Found out that the true power isn't in his own finger. Yes, yes. Which is kind of the craziest test, right? Right. It's like you're looking for an apprentice and you ask what finger the magic resides in, like, and you hold up your fingers. I mean, it's like, it's a, it's a trick question. Mm-hmm. and they all fail of course, but will it? The willow knew better, but he just didn't stick to his gut feeling and he didn't wanna look stupid in front of everybody. Right. By saying something That sounds stupid, but in the end, the correct answer in the end. Yes. Right. You know, they're just trying to teach him that he needs to be confident in himself. Yes. Yeah, buddy. Did you know the movie was originally titled Munchkins? Really? Yeah. Huh? Doesn't seem to work as well. It definitely would not have worked. No. so at this time, Ron Howard really hadn't done a fantasy film. He'd done his, his fair share of little things up until this point. Yeah. But Willow was definitely the biggest movie for sure. Oh, absolutely. I mean, don't get around until his career. Right. He went on to do much bigger things and made some incredible films over the course of his career. But Willow is definitely one of my favorites is Right. It has it, that film that just has that lasting power. Right. So before, before he did Willow, he did Splash Cocoon and Gung-Ho and then Willow. Okay. So he had a good amount of films under his, I forgot about Splash. Yep. How did I forget about Splash? I love Splash. We need to talk about Splash. We do. Yeah. Yes. Well, we'll go on Ron Howard, uh, trip a little bit later. But yeah, he's, uh, up until this point it's been, it was comedies. Comedies and feel good. And now it was, he changed a fantasy and feel good. Yep. George Lucas brought him into direct. He previously worked with him on American Graffiti and uh, it didn't hurt that Howard also had a relationship, a working relationship with, Steven Spielberg. Right. Who was a producer of Cocoon. So it was like a perfect storm. Yeah. Ron Howard, that guy, that guy, that guy, that guy's, he's done some great stuff. It took a little bit to get funding for the movie Uhhuh. It would, you'd think, uh, someone like George Lucas who made Star Wars would be able to secure the funding for a fantasy film like Willow, but it was not easy. Mm-hmm. in fact, a lot of people in Hollywood, a lot of studios were turning him down even after the success of the Star Wars trilogy, which is just kind of insane to me. Right. It doesn't make sense. Almost every studio turned him down. I mean, you gotta think about it. The guy made Star Wars. I know. Didn't wanna back up, back him up no matter what. I mean, he ended up securing co-financing with mgm, which is great. Mm-hmm. But at that time there, the, the fantasy films that were coming out, like Labyrinth, dragon Slayer, legend Crawl, they had all tanked to the box office and so, I guess it makes sense that studios are like, oh, no, fantasy. Fantasy doesn't bring in any money, so we can't, we don't want to give money to another fantasy film that's just gonna flop. Yeah. I mean, I can see that, but still Willow became a classic. Yeah, I mean, I guess if we're gonna be honest with ourselves here, mm-hmm. the box office take for Willow was less than expected. of course. So some of these studios obviously, you know, fantasy just wasn't hitting. I could, so, you know, seeing that the movie didn't do as well as everyone thought it would, I'm sure that hurt for sure. But in the end, It's one of those films that just stuck with those who actually went out and saw it. Right? Absolutely. I mean, I'm sure it was going up against some bigger things. Like I was reading it was going up against Crocodile Dundee too. Yes. And I remember seeing Crocodile Dundee two in the theaters. I also remember seeing Big and Rambo three. I didn't see Rambo three in theaters cuz No, but I didn't see the other ones. My parents were not gonna take me to see Rambo three No, but I feel like Willow had just as much success post movie theaters as big, big as a fantastic one. It made a profit. It did not lose money. Right. Willow did not lose money, but it was not the runaway. I think maybe Lucas and Howard and some of the other people were hoping it would be because they had plans for sequels. Like they wanted this to be a big fantasy franchise when they, when they launched it and when it wasn't that, when it kind of tanked the box office and didn't do as well as they'd hope. Lucas did continue the story, but he did it in books. So there are three books that are known as the Chronicles of the Shadow War. Mm-hmm. And those were written by X-Men writer Chris Claremont and Lucas. And those books include Shadow Moon, shadow Don, and Shadow Star. They were published in 95, 96, and 2000. And now look, here's the thing though. Okay. The fans did not like these books because they were dark. The tone was bleak. There were, deaths of certain characters from the film that happened pretty quickly, and the fans just did not care for this book series, which, okay, so I've known about these for a while. You can find ch uh, books two and three pretty easily. You can get'em online for like nine bucks. Okay? The problem is, is that Shadow Moon, the first. If somebody has it and they're selling it, they're pricing it outrageously. Oh really? Yeah. So I've been trying to, yeah, I've been trying to find it at just like local bookstores and things of that sort. But man, no, if, if you look online, they're pricing that thing. They're just gouging you. So I still wanna read them even though they flopped. I wanna read them. You've never read'em, I assume. I have not. You read a lot. So I do assumed that you had already read them. No. So I'm kind of shocked right now that you have not read these books, Billy? Uh, it's mostly based on the, I can't find the first one. I could read the second and third one. That'd be great. But doesn't make sense without the first one. Hmm. Yeah. That's interesting. But, while some of these books were being written, Lucas was busy developing the Phantom Menace. Okay. And so while he was involved, his involvement was. Basically, he gave an outline for the series of books to Claremont and then just let Claremont do his thing. Oh, I wonder how that went over. Well, Lucas admitted that he was so unhappy with how the books turned out, that he disowned them Oh. So Lucas is not happy with those books either. So the fans don't like'em. Lucas doesn't like'em. and now they're, you know, rectifying that with the sequel series good. And those books are not Cannon right? Of course. So I'm still gonna read them. I'll find'em and I'll read'em. I'll give you a book report when I'm done. Awesome. Okay. So maybe it was just me, but how blown away were you when you, when it clicked, that was Val Kilmer playing Mad Margan. Well, here's the thing. You gotta remember, bro, like when I was a kid, I didn't know who Val Kilmer was. Right. I was just like, oh, Madigans this fun character that you love to hate. Right? Right, right, right. But yeah, I, I think, I mean, it must have been in high school when I rewatched it sometime. I don't remember, but it had to have been sometime in high school where I rewatched the movie and I ar, by then I knew who Val Kilmer was and then Rewatched the movie. I'm like, oh my gosh, Val Kilmer is mad. Margan Right. So it didn't click till high school years till later. Way later. Yeah. Yeah. He's so great in it though. He's so, he's perfect in this role. He is so amazing. Like when I realized that I was, I was shocked. I was just like, what are you talking about Like, it was so unlike anything he had done thus far. But so exactly on brand for him. It was weird. Yeah. Yeah. He was great. I love him in this movie. He's so fun to watch. So fun. And I love the chemistry that he has with, Warwick Davis in the movie. Like, there's just this great chemistry between the two and it just works so well on strain. Right. Such a great, such great casting. And what's crazy too, mm-hmm. is, John Cusack was up for the role of Mad Martin again. Yeah, I heard that. And it's, I, I like John Cusack, don't get me wrong. I love the, and you're, and you gotta remember, we're, we're talking about eighties, John Qsac. I mean, this is kinda like he's at the top of his game right now. You know what I mean? Right. Yeah. Yes. Oh, and Val Kilmer's just starting, you know what I mean? Right. Like, so you had one actor who was at the top of his game, who was like doing this thing and Hollywood and Val Kilmer this up and coming actor. I mean, he did Valer had done what? Top secret, real genius, uh, top Gun. Yeah. But. Yeah, this, this, I think this took him to a different level. Yeah. But apparently Qsac was like pretty, like bummed out and hurt that he didn't get the role. Like it's one of these, it's one of those movie roles that he wished he would've landed. Even to this day, it's like kind of like, ah, I wish I would've wish I would've landed that role. Right? The one that got away. I can see him doing it. But, I'm, I'm kind of, I'm really glad with what we got. Like, I'm never gonna, killer is perfect. I would've chosen, I would've chosen Kilmer over Qsac. Now I love Qsac, but I just don't see him in the role of Mad Margan. The one casting news that I thought was interesting is they at one point had considered, um, hiring Rick Mail. For those of you who don't know him, he was dropped dead Fred and dropped dead Fred, or he was in the young ones, which would've been funny. But I, I, like I said, Val K was perfect for this role. It was, I felt like it was written for him. Have you noticed there were points in the movie where you see him, uh, limping in certain scenes? Yeah. Do you know why that is? No. What happened? He was getting out of, you know, that crow cage that he was in? Yeah. That he was left in to die. Mm-hmm. well between takes the chain snapped and the cage came down on his foot. Oh no. And so pretty much it jacked up his foot. So that's why he's limping in, in certain scenes in the movie, which I thought was, oh, that's, It's funny, I never noticed his limp though, until I read this. And when I read this and watched the movie, I'm like, oh, he does have a limp. Yeah. Ah. I just always thought it was overacting cuz he was like sitting in that cage for so long his legs weren't working like he was committed to that. But no, that, that makes a lot more sense. did you know the devil dogs were actually rottweilers and rubber masks and, and uh, like monster looking creature suits. Dude, I don't care what anybody says. Those things are freaking scary, dude. They look real, they do look real, they look like monsters. I was like, I was rewatching when I was rewatching. I was like, man, those look good. Like, right, those look real. Like, I was like, are those real an yes, they are real animals. But they're, they're dogs with rubber masks and suits, but, I couldn't tell. Really, really, really Well done. Yeah, dude, this, that's just one of the shocking things about these, this movie in general, is that the story was great, but the world that they created around it just, it like the Devil Dogs, everything just seemed real like it was in place in that area. Well, and then you had, I mean it's, it said, from what I've read, Val Kilmer did ad lib also some of his, a lot of his dialogue really. So a lot of that stuff was also real. Like he just came up with it on the spot while shooting, which is just fascinating to me, like going off script and doing his own thing. That makes a lot of sense though because I couldn't find anywhere if that was frustrating for Howard and and Lucas or if they just let him roll with it. I couldn't find any information on that but, but if you watch it, if you watch War Davis, sometimes he'll like Val do something and he looks genuinely shocked that this is happening right now. You know what I mean? Yeah. So that makes a lot of sense that a lot of this stuff is just coming out of right field. Cuz a lot of the times work. Davis just, just like he's off kilter. Like I said, there's a lot of Easter eggs in it. It along with finding out that Val Kilmer was mad Margan. It was crazy to find that Kevin Pollock was one of the brownies You know what I mean? Yeah. I mean, you see him in a few good men or usual suspects, and then all of a sudden you're watching Willow one day and you're like, wait a minute. That's, that's Kevin Pollock. Yeah. That's kind of funny. I like it. Dude, he, that was perfect casting for him. Do we wanna talk about these couple scenes here? Eh, we don't have to talk about the pigs. Actually, I think we do need to talk about the pigs. It's, we're gonna, we're gonna talk about the pigs. Kind of funny actually. All right. Just, it's just a little stupid tidbit that I kind of laughed at I didn't too. That's what, when I read it. But, yeah. The large group of pigs outside of the castle were constantly trying to mate with each other, and to keep it from doing that. The crew had to keep pouring buckets of cold water all over him to separate. Oh, it sucked to be that guy though. Hey, but what did you do? What did you do? Oh, you worked on Willow. What did you do? I threw buckets of cold water on pigs to stop him from having sex Oh, dude, that was, that was my job. I'd like to talk to that guy. Got paid all this money to go on a set just to throw water on pigs. That was funny though. Anyway, yeah, that's all that, that's, that's the whole thing about the pigs. The pigs And now whenever you see those pigs, when you watch the movie, that little tidbit of information is going to pop up in your brain forever. Right. And that's why we had to say it. Right. Those pigs weren't really in character at the time. They had other things on their minds. Yes. Uh, Davis actually talked about a deleted. Scene from the film. That actually sounds pretty epic. Like, sounds pretty cool. I just wanna like touch on that real quick. He said the deleted storm sequence. It was pretty epic. We did two weeks of filming on that and it wasn't used because A, it was something that would've been really expensive to finish in post production, and B, it really didn't have any particular bearing on the story. You could lose that and it didn't make any difference to the plot. The thing is, if you watch the film closely, you do notice that my hair is all wet at one point because the scene before it was supposed to be a big storm. I actually saw the storm footage for the first time only last year. It, it's only been cut together in a temporary way. it's not been completed, but that's the beauty of it. It feels like lost footage that's been rediscovered and it's a quite exciting moment in the film one. I think the fads will enjoy seeing. Well, I would like to see it. So this scene is out there, I think it's on like the most recent released D V D Huh. Which I don't have, well, you'll have to look it up on YouTube. It's gotta be on there somewhere. Somewhere. It's gonna be there somewhere. Oh man. I, I think I should probably get it cause I would like to see a lot more stuff from behind the scenes. I wish they'd put that stuff on Disney Plus all those extras that are on those DVDs. Right. That'd be interesting. But then, No one would buy the DVDs. True, true. It's the incentive of buying physical media. Right. You get all the special features. Right. But I mean, they do do some, like, they had special features for, uh, where by Night, and that was a great little documentary on that. Sure. But like, that's all new. Like they, they were like, they were shooting that as they made the film, whereas something like Willow, well, an interesting tidbit about Willow. Mm-hmm. Warwick Davis had a video camera on him at all times and shot a lot of behind the scenes footage with this video camera that he, this footage has never been released, but if there was a special, if they were ever do a special, special feature version of it, uh, I'm sure they could go to him to get that footage. He, like, he did a whole video diary throughout the course of shooting this movie, which would be incredible to see. That would be fantastic. I would, I would actually pay to see that I would pay to buy that documentary or behind the scenes footage. Yeah. I just did a quick check online to see if the, if, if Davis has actually released that footage on YouTube or something, but no, it is not there. So. Hmm. Could not find anything that's upsetting anyway. Anyway, let's move on. Moving on. Let's move on to some special effect stuff from industrial Light and magic ilm, the real sourcer of filmmaking. I like that. Good job. Yeah. Yeah. You should be, this is the first feature film ever to use the morphine process developed by ilm, bro. That's like seriously scarring. The, the morphing, like, uh, when, what was it? Fin Roelle is morphing between animals. That was cool. Yeah, it was awesome. But what got me is when the troll morphed into the dragon. Oh yeah. That crap. When I was a kid, I was like, that was the scariest thing I've ever. Ah, interesting. Just because I didn't, like, you never know how dragons come about and everybody says, says they're like hatched by eggs, but this came out of the body of a troll into this nasty looking thing out, out, man. It was fantastic. It was pretty wild though that that whole morphine process. Yeah. All right. In the scene that we're talking about, Willow uses theand to restore Finn Razel. And she goes from a goat to her human form, and as he is reciting things, what he thinks might be the right spell, uh, she ends up turning into a goat at one point an ostrich peacock, tortoise a tiger, before finally returning to her normal. Human form. But it was a really cool process. And at one point they actually considered using stop motion animation for the scene. Mm-hmm. And that came from that. That bit of information came from ILM supervisor Dennis Muren. And he explained that another traditional and practical way in the late 1980s to execute this sequence would've been through the use of optical dissolved with cutaways at various stages. Ooh. But he found that both stop motion and optical effects. Uh, to be too technically challenging and decided that the transformation scene would be a perfect opportunity for ILM to create advances with digital morphine technology. He proposed filming each animal and the actress, and then feeding the images into a computer program developed by Doug Smith. The program would then create a smooth transition from one stage to another before outputting the result back onto film. Smith began development of the necessary software in September of 1987. By March, 1988, Muren and his fellow designer David Allen, achieved what would represent a breakthrough for computer technology, imagery, cgi. The techniques developed for this sequence were later utilized by ILM for Indiana Jones of the last Crusade, Terminator two, judgment Day, and star Trek six, the undiscovered country. I like that. That was good. Yeah. Yeah. So that really set the tone. It all started with Willow. Yeah. Nice. Good job. Ilm. Look at you. Yeah. Doing magic, doing big things. I'm proud of them, but I mean, That was the thing is that that's what made it feel so real. It, they, they didn't go for, at that time, cheesy stop motion kind of stuff. It feel, it felt like at that point we'd progressed past that into something new. Yeah. And I, I appreciate that. That was a really cool Yep. I love the innovation that ILM has brought to filmmaking. Yeah. And they just keep doing it. They keep doing it. It's crazy. I love it so much. Joanne Waley, who played Soha in the film, accidentally stuck her sword in a stunt man's foot while sticking the sword into the ground at the tavern. That's gotta hurt, man. They should have used CGI for that. One of the, they should have was painful. No real swords were used, I'm sure. Uh, Kilmer's glad that wasn't him. Absolutely. Speaking of which, Uhhuh, speaking of which, after meeting on the set of this film, Kilmer and Waley were married. Oh nice. In real life. I mean, they eventually ended up getting a divorce, but they did form a relationship on the set of this film. Oh, that's cool. That's something I did not realize. So, yeah, I mean that's cool cuz it, you could really feel the tension between the two, so I guess that kind of helped it along. That was really nice. Yes. It's kind of funny, Uhhuh when making this movie, George Lucas named some of the villain characters. Mm-hmm. after members of the press because Okay. You know, they would, it, some people just didn't like his movies and would kind of give him bad reviews and so, right. Uh, for example, The two headed dragon was named Eber SISs, which was a reference to movie critics, gene Cisco and Roger Ebert The word does not occur in the film, but made it into some reviews. Okay. Yeah. Well, good for him. The evil General Kale. Mm-hmm. is named after another film critic, Pauline Kale, who was notorious for giving scathing reviews to popular and acclaimed films, and had never given any film. George Lucas directed or produced a positive review. Oh wow. In a negative review of. The film Kale admitted to being flattered and amused by the homage. So even though she was, her name was used in the movie as one of the main characters, she still gave it a bad review. that's awful. You know, some people just don't like movies and they just wanna watch the world burn. I think. Well it's okay to enjoy films, people, it's okay. And that's something that we bring when we talk about some of these movies aren't our favorites, but we still like'em because we like, we'll talk about them and talk about the good things and the bad things cuz they affected us when we were younger and impressionable. It's okay not to like something, but it's okay to like something that not everybody likes it. There's even kids like there. There's even films that I grew up with that like I watch now and I just can't stand, for example, like, uh, masters of the Universe is a rough one to get through. We've already talked about this movie. It is hard. Yeah. Uh, but as a kid I loved it and it kind of played this whole role in my life of like, loving movies and enjoy going to the movies. So I don't know. Garbage Pell Kids movie though. Nah. Anything good came from that one. No, I really enjoyed it as a kid, but I think I enjoyed it because, um, because we didn't know what I thought I was supposed to, we didn't know what the hell was going on. Yeah. What is happening? I mean, it's, it's pretty traumatic now when you're, when you're a kid, you're always high. You know what I mean? Yes, that's true. When you're a kid, your mind is just like all over the place. And so everything just like is awesome and makes sense. That's true. That's true. man. you don't really think about, it's not to you're adult where you start to mellow out and actually realize what's being said in a movie. Exactly. Oh man. Yeah, that was bad. Allora. Danon was played by six. Old twins. Okay. And they didn't have like a full head of hair, like, you know, we see in the movie. So that was a wig. The babies had to wear wigs. just kind of a little interesting tidbit. Those wigs were applied using syrup because normal wig adhesives were too harsh for the baby's skins. Oh, okay. That makes sense. Just dab a little syrup on'em and stick a wig there. Those twins that played Allora never acted again. That was their one role ever. That was it, huh? Yeah. I mean, at some point, uh, Warwick Davis shared a picture back in 2007 with a woman named Laura Hop Kirk. Mm-hmm. who said, who said that she played the baby for the scene. Shot New Zealand. But she's not credited online. Hmm. So, you know. Sure. Right. I think it's funny that we've run into this so often in doing this podcast. We keep finding people. They're obviously in the movie, but they don't credit them at all. Yeah. It's just crazy. But you know, maybe she didn't play the baby Okay. Do tell. I'm just saying maybe she didn't, maybe she's claiming it. You can kind of make stuff up like that if you wanted to, but maybe she had proof, right? I don't know. Well, I mean, yeah. I mean, it's hard with those babies. You never know. It could be anybody. It could have been you. Yes. We don't know. It's true now, during the production of the show, production was moving so slowly that the babies were outgrowing the props of the film. Okay? So the baby carrier that Willow had on his back, they needed, a new baby to to, to, uh, be placed in it because the other kids were growing up too fast. So they needed a new baby to like, fit in that thing because the other ones were growing up too fast. So the as, second assistant director recommended his newborn niece, Uhhuh she was never credited in the movie. Her name was Rebecca Berman. Mm-hmm. And the scene where the baby is sick on Berg Cut was not written into the script. Willow walked with a limp, which gave Rebecca motion sickness. When she was lifted up, she threw up over his head and it was so funny, they kept it in the film. So that whole scene was real due to baby motion sickness, That's awesome. That is amazing. And I just love that burger cut. Really? Had a baby puke on his head. like I said, I'm sure he is a nice guy, but man, I hated him in that movie. The names of the twins in the film were Kate and Ruth Greenfield. Okay. Kate went on to, Montfort University to study forensic science and it is not known what Ruth ended up doing since Willow. So they just kind of did their own thing. Right. I can understand that. They were just babies, so I'm sure it really didn't mean much to'em. The parents of the babies attended Val Kilmer and Joanne Wiley's wedding though. Oh good. That's fun. As far as the action sequences go, Uhhuh, in regards to the baby. Mm-hmm. they used a 13 pound animatronic baby that was capable of moving its head uhhuh, opening its mouth, and uh, it weighed, obviously weighed more than an actual baby. That's crazy though, I mean, I'm glad they did that. Yeah. I wanna keep the baby safe. Well, sure, you know, but you're gonna heavier than the baby. I'm saying you're not gonna have like, you know, put a real baby in those situations. Yeah, I mean, I guess, I mean, Willow falls a lot in the movie. He does follow. Yes. And you had a baby, like a real baby in that poor thing, going to get banged up pretty bad. But when Willow did follow, they used a more flexible prop baby. Oh, okay. In those scenes. So it wasn't like a 13 pound animatronic baby that he was falling with. They had several different kinds of babies. They had real babies, they had animatronic babies, they had flexible prop babies. Mm-hmm. for this movie. You gotta, you gotta get all your babies covered. Oh, of course. When making a movie like this. Right. For all you filmmakers out there, if you ever plan on using a baby in a movie, look to Willow for your inspiration. Well, I mean, I wonder where that 13 pound prop baby went. It's probably in a prop house somewhere. Or as they threw it away. Who knows? So, this is a little off subject, but Yeah. Did you ever see, we, of course we've all seen Labyrinth, but did you ever see what happened to the, the prop of Hoggle? No, tell me. They, they found it in a suitcase in an airport. Huh? Just ran, I think it was in Ireland. They just randomly found like, you know how if somebody doesn't collect a bag, they just throw it into a storage and somebody's going through it and they found Hoggle. That's so, at least that's what I read. Weird, right? Fascinating. Yep. So, well, I did, I just wonder if that's sitting somewhere in some warehouse. Chilling. Did you ever wonder what the Black Root was in the movie? I always wanted to chew on the Black Root. Right? When I was a kid, I was like, ah, man, I want to, I wanna chew on that. What is it? What is it? Well, in reality it's just vanilla. Oh yeah. Oh, so you can like chew on black fruit whenever you want now. That's crazy. Yep. And we could say we're doing it. Yes. It'll put hair on our chest. Yes. That black root scene was actually referenced in Star Wars, the Clone Wars. Really? Yes. in, uh, there's a scene where, count Duku drinks a beverage called Black Root. Oh, crazy. Well, there's a lot of little connections between Star Wars and Willow, you know what I mean? Yes. Yes. And you wanna tell us about some of those? One of the ones that I liked, was you see the Devil Dogs in solo in the beginning of Solo. Yes. You see them chasing solo out of the, you know, chasing them around. Yep. So that was cool. So they're somewhere in that universe. And then you just tell me that one about, um, black root popping up in the clone wars. Yep. That's freaking cool. Well, then you have Willow who has several traits in common with Luke Skywalker. Simple, a simple farm boy. Mm-hmm. who embarks on the adventure by forces beyond his control. Yeah. I like it. Yeah. Keep going. You got this. Then you have the high Alwin. That would be Willow's pretty much equivalent to OB one Can. And kind of how he resembles Yoda in certain ways, especially after he delivers that speech about the magic. Right. Right. And how that, how has Descripts, how his speech sounds similar to the descriptions of the force. Mm-hmm. you remember that scene? I sure do. I mean all this makes sense because George Lucas wrote Star Wars and he also wrote Willow. So of course there's gonna be some parallels there. Matt Margan, uh, A Wise Cracking Mercenary with a heart of Gold. Yep. Who is that? Billy Han Solo. V Solo, right? Yep. ends up getting into a romance with Soha in the film. Yep. Who shares Princess Leia's Royal Lineage? kind of, not kind of like directly, but like, you know what I'm saying? It's Right, right, right. Princess Princess. Exactly. Exactly. The love that was never meant to be, and their whole, their whole relationship in that were, you know, they're kind of butting heads and flirting at the same time. It's like, same thing with On and lea in, in the Star Wars films. You've got SO'S mother who's kind of in the same story position as Emperor Palpetine using her magical, supernatural abilities to strengthen her grip on this world, right? Mm-hmm. then there is, Oh, general Kale, who is General Kale General, and then there's General Kale who is clearly, clearly the Darth Vader type character in the story. He's got the menacing mask and the dark clothing and the Cape and that evil, dark, fearsome presence. Right. And his mask even cracks at the end. Kinda like Darth Vader's whole stitch. Yeah. So that's, that's cool. Exactly. Wow. There, so essentially what you're saying is, is George Lucas wrote Star Wars in medieval times. Yes. Okay. It's not the galaxy far, far away. It's in a fantasy. It's in a fantasy world. Far, far away. Yep. Perfect. Nice. So I mean, at one point you've got the three main characters that wind up in a tavern that isn't too much unlike most iley, right? It's just a tavern in a fantasy world instead of tattooing. Yep. Which is ultimately invaded by an army and they have to make a dramatic escape. you're really blowing my mind right now, buddy. You've got rule and Fring that Uhhuh share very similar traits with R two D two and C3 P because of their comedic dynamic and how they like help the characters throughout the film and times when they need them. Mm-hmm. Right? Exactly. Yeah. And they're hilarious. Then there's the character Eric who shares a friendship with Mad Margan. Mm-hmm. And that relationship there is similar to Han Solo's, friendship with Lando Calrissian and their home Kingdom of Gallad do suffers the same fate as Alderon, destroyed by Bev Mors Mercy List Army. Yes. Yes. And then there's a couple other little things. You have a Laura Danon who shares some similarities to the sta the, to the Stolen Death Star plans. That's true because she is basically, uh, McGuffin protected by the heroes as their last hope and feared by the villains as their one weakness. So you got that. So lots of, lots of Star Wars parallels going on here with Willow. So many. So many. There's a lot. There's a lot. But here's the thing, the formula worked. It worked perfectly. Yeah, of course. Hey, If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Exactly. Oh man. There were seven scripts total that were written for this movie and some of the earlier drafts of the script featured, uh, additional background information on some of the characters such as Mad Martan and Soha. Mad Margan was originally a knight of the Kingdom of Gallad Dorn and the character Eric was the only real friend that he had, but Mad Mart's recklessness got him into trouble, as did his love affair with an Eastern Beauty that tainted his family name. Mad Margan had a chance to regain his honor in battle, but he ruined the chance by deserting. This explains some of the bitter antagonism between Mad Margan and Eric Soha was originally, the daughter of the King of Terrace Lean, who was a good man, which suggested that Soia had the capability to do good during the battle at Tear Lane between. Bev Mortas troops and Mad Margan and the Monster. Soha encountered her father and he struggled through the stone to ask her for help, which prompted Soha to switch alliances from her evil mother to the good side. All of this was lost in the final film, but does appear in the novelization as well as the comic book miniseries that Marvel comics produced. So there's some more information there. For those of you who didn't know the background of some of these characters, because you didn't read the comics. You didn't read the books, there you go. So what you're saying is that I'm gonna have to spend some more money buying books and comics? Always. Always. Okay, good. I just wanted to know, just wanted, make sure. That's pretty much, that's pretty much what we've got here, guys. Like yeah. That we kind of went through all of the information that we found. Lots of cool stuff. If you're a fan of the movie, we hope you enjoyed this. But I, I was just gonna ask Billy, like, uh, some, if there's anything else he wanted to add to it, any scenes or anything that he liked or,, uh, anything like that. You know what, the thing that gets me, I mean, you watch it now and some of the special effects don't work as well, but there are some, like, it seems like every scene with the brownies in it seems to work like I can't. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yep. Like, it's just crazy to think that they had just invented a lot of that technology for that movie. I mean, granted, the dragon at the end is kind of off putting, but I mean, the rest of it is really amazing. but yeah, I'm, I'm really excited to see, the series, the sequel series, which you've already seen some of, and I want to ask a lot of questions, but, I just feel like there was a lot of unanswered questions at the end of it. So yeah, I'm excited for what's coming. Awesome. Do you have any quotes? Any favorite quotes? Um, stupid Fat Dini is still one of my favorites. and oh, I do, I don't know why. It just makes me laugh every time they, when they go see Fin Roelle on the island and the Brownies are like, that's Fin Roelle. I was expecting something less Fuzzy I like, like, that's fantastic. Yeah. My favorite Lime will never change. It will always be. Out of the way, Peck. Right. So, yeah. Well, folks, we've done it again. We hope you enjoyed this one. We love this movie. And hopefully get you interested in seeing the sequel series. Yeah. If you bought, I mean, if you're a fan of Will, you're definitely gonna watch the sequel series. Cause I don't know what fan of Willow wouldn't want to jump on board and at least see what that thing is about. Right. So I just hope, you know, even though I've seen some stuff, I'm still, I'm still like pretty early in. So, uh, I, I like what I've seen so far. I hope that the story continues to stay strong and that these characters continue to grow on me because I'm really enjoying it so far. Mm-hmm. uh, once I finish the series, I will have a better, I'll be able to better, like, talk about it more. As of right now, I just love seeing Warwick Davis back in the role of Willow. That is so cool. So cool to see him in this role again after all these years, and they've surrounded him by new characters. There's some other old characters that show up as well. Yeah, I'm excited. Orwick Davis is awesome. Yes, absolutely. Oh man. So thank Yeah. Thank you everyone for listening to us. Please follow us on Twitter and Facebook. Facebook, Facebook. Please, please follow us. That's our new one. Yeah. Please follow us on Twitter and Facebook. Uh, at GT secret level, reach out to us. Leave reviews, leave five star reviews. Because you know, unless you got like a, something fun for a one star right? If you're gonna give us a one star, at least make it entertaining. Yes. Yes. but yeah, we hope to keep doing this and as long as people are listening, we will keep doing it. So thank you, all of you who do listen, we appreciate it. Thank you for reaching out to us on our social media platforms and for recommending things we are working on. Lots of stuff so thank you. Thank you. And, stay tuned for our next one. Yes. Good journey everybody. Good journey. Don't I know you? I stole the baby from you dti, while you were taking the peepee. Ah, yes